Blind To Themselves

Welcome back to Unapologetic Parenting, the podcast where we take an unfiltered look at high-conflict co-parenting, narcissistic dynamics, blended families, and the realities of family court—without sugarcoating, and without pretending these problems resolve themselves.

In this episode, Carl Knickerbocker tackles a fascinating and often dangerous phenomenon that shows up again and again in high-conflict cases: the complete inability of highly narcissistic, disordered parents to recognize how badly they sound in their own evidence.

Carl breaks down a scenario many parents—and attorneys—know all too well. A client proudly presents a “smoking gun” recording, convinced it will expose the other parent as unhinged, coercive, or abusive. But when the recording is actually played, the reality is often the exact opposite: yelling, repeating, intoxication, and emotional volatility from the person presenting the evidence—sometimes with children caught in the middle—while the other party remains calm, direct, and composed.

This episode explores:

• Why narcissistic and Cluster B personalities lack meaningful self-reflection
• How projection turns their own behavior into “proof” against someone else
• Why blind-testing recordings often reveals a very different story than the one being told
• The danger of believing your own narrative instead of listening objectively
• How “smoking gun” evidence frequently becomes a self-inflicted wound in court

Carl also shares what happens when these recordings surface right before a hearing, why that timing is a major red flag, and how opposing counsel is often blindsided by evidence they’ve never actually listened to themselves. The result? Panic, last-minute damage control, and sudden interest in settlement.

If you’ve ever been told “the judge just needs to hear this”—or if you’re dealing with someone who truly cannot see themselves—this episode will help you understand what’s really going on, how judges and attorneys hear these recordings, and why the loudest accusations often collapse under their own weight.

Because when you’re dealing with a truly high-conflict, narcissistic opponent, the so-called smoking gun aimed at you is often the very thing that exposes them instead.

Transcript

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Welcome to Unapologetic parenting, the podcast dedicated to candidly and unapologetically discussing high conflict, co parenting, blended families and the family court system, we take on the topics most people don't want to talk about and offer solutions and support to help you be a better parent, better spouse in your blended family and happier human being. Now without further ado, let's get right to it. Welcome to Unapologetic parenting. I'm your host, Carl Knickerbocker, and in this episode, we're talking about the the interesting phenomena that when we deal with these truly, highly narcissistic, rather disordered co parents, opposing parties, whatever have you, they seem to possess or not possess any capacity at all to be able to appreciate how horrible they look or sound in evidence, and oftentimes, they seem to have a complete lack of capacity to contemplate or appreciate just how bad they come across in their own evidence. And so what often happens is, I'm presented with a recording, maybe it's an audio recording or video recording, and I'm told this is, this is the smoking gun. This is the greatest piece of evidence ever. And this is the quintessential expression of and they sometimes really talk like that. This is the quintessential piece of evidence, expression of how just unhinged she is and how awful she is, and she's so coercive, and the list goes on and on about how if I just listen to this recording, I will fully understand how just awful and disordered and chaotic the other party is, and that if I just play this in court, then the scales will fall off of the judge's eyes and they Will, you know, realize the great truth of just how truly unhinged the other party is. I say, Great. I'll listen to it, and so I listen to it, and usually what I'll also do is I'll blind test it with various staff members, and I won't tell them which party is which. I'll just say, listen to this and tell me what you think about the recording about who's who, who's the problem child, and give me your your separate opinion. And so I'll listen to it, and it'll end up being 15 minutes of the guy who's saying that this is the great evidence against the other party. No, it's 15 minutes of him yelling and screaming or just repeating himself and just being awful, and not only being awful to his wife or the mom the other party, but oftentimes it's just being really, really terrible in front of the children and so you hear the children in the background being exposed to all of this or being yelled at throughout the recording. And the it's it's just utterly shocking to me, just how they don't appreciate that this is bad evidence against them. And then you hear the other party saying things like, calm down. I'm not going to do this. Would you please stop doing this in front of the children? I don't feel comfortable with this. You know, go to bed, go to sleep. You're drunk. And the the other party is actually more often than not, being very level headed, very direct, very calm and sane throughout the recording. And then when I go back to my staff, I say, Well, what did you notice from this recording? And invariably, every single time, all the staff members are able to point to the problem child in the recording, and the person who is not the problem child and who is going to fare very well in front of a judge or a jury. And, you know, typically, it's the person who's going to do well is the person that I'm supposed to think this recording is, you know, the damning evidence against and really it's the person who is presenting it. They're the ones who really should be concerned about this piece of evidence. And of course, when you go back and you talk to the person and say, Well, you know, we listen to it. And I do not think this means what you think this means. I do not think this is what you really think it is, and it's very problematic, and would be very bad for you to try to present this or put this forward, because it does not show the judge or anyone else anything negative about the other side. In fact. It reflects really badly on you. And when I start pointing things out like that, usually the first round is just complete denial. Oh, well, you didn't listen to it, right? You didn't listen to it close enough. Because at minute eight, you know, eight minute and 32 seconds into the recording, she calls me an asshole. And it's like, well, yeah, that's, you know, she did, but you know, she does so kind of nicely and rather accurately, and she probably could have said a lot worse, and that that one comment or that one name calling doesn't erase the fact that the other 15 minutes of the thing is you saying awful things to and about the mom in front of the children this? This is not good. And the whole yelling and screaming thing while she is being calm again, not a good look on you. I do not recommend presenting this. And of course, there'll be some more pushback. It's my fault that I didn't listen to it correctly. It's, you know, the staff's fault that they didn't listen to it correctly either. And usually, when I stand the ground and say, No, this, this isn't something that we're going to present. This isn't something that's good. Typically, within the next few days, we're fired, and they go and get a different attorney. And I say, well, thank goodness. Please take the rest of your retainer back if there's anything left. Good luck. And then, sure enough, when you watch the case side note, they'll usually go through about three or four more attorneys before the end of the case, assumedly, because they keep getting the same answer, or hopefully they keep getting the same answer that you know, your case is not what you think it is. And you have a lot of things to really be concerned about here, but coming back to the original topic, you know, so often they have no ability to see themselves, and that's one of the hallmark characteristics of dealing with somebody who's truly, you know, highly narcissistic, or in that cluster B family of disorders, is they lack that ability to really self reflect, to self appreciate, to them. You know, they think that they are God's gift to anything and everything, and therefore they just cannot see their own problematic behavior and anything that is problematic in a recording or in a relationship dynamic, they just project it completely onto the other person. It's not that you know, the they themselves, the disordered individual themselves, is the one with the problem and is yelling and screaming. Well, that's all the other person. It's all them. And even if you can get them to acknowledge, you know, hey, look, dude, you're you're yelling and screaming. Do you hear yourself yelling and screaming here? Well, It's all her fault. She made me do it. An enemy hath done this, and they will find some reason to just cast it all on the other person. It's all their fault. They're the ones who are really doing it. And then the screaming person is just the victim, over and over and over and over again, no matter how many recordings there are, they, of course, are just the victim of this other person, pushing them to it and manipulating them to it for the judge. And I can't wait for the judge to hear this, because it makes your client sound so awful. The first thing I do is say, Great. Let me see it. Let me hear it. Because warning sign number one, or Red flag number one for me is usually the first time I'm hearing about this recording or having this presented to me at all by opposing counsel or the opposing party, is right before a hearing. So it's out in the hallway. They haven't produced it yet. There's been no indication that the thing even exists. But, you know, I have this thing. I have this smoking gun, and I'm about to go use it great. Let's be put on recess for a few minutes so I can listen to it. I would love to hear this. And I get them to send it to me, and I step aside and I listen to it. And nine times out of 10, I love what I hear. And then I go back to opposing counsel, and I say, thank you for sending that to me. I love that recording. That is fantastic. Please play that. I cannot wait for you to go into court and play that in front of the judge. Please do let's go do it together, and it freaks them out. And they're like, Well, why are you so happy all of a sudden about this thing? Because this is so bad for your client. Why are you? Why do you what's going on? I was like, and so usually I say, Well, have you listened to it? Did you hear how your client presents? Did you actually sit down? And listen to this thing, and again, nine times out of 10, they haven't. They're just going with what their client told them about it. They're going based on what their client represented to them what it says. And so when they go back and they actually listen to it most of the time. They join me, in my opinion, and then they get to step aside and try to negotiate with their client, to come to some sort of deal to avoid them having to go into the courtroom. So listen closely to what opposing counsel is saying. Listen closely to what the opposing party is saying, because when you know that you truly are dealing with a narcissistic Cluster B, highly problematic opposing party, more often than not, what they claim to be the smoking gun against you is actually going to be some of the greatest evidence that you can use against them. You.